Reddit Anime Post: Yuumi’s E now costs at least 234 mana at level 18. : leagueoflegends

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Or 347 mana if you take Presence of Mind and Manaflow Band.

This most recent nerf for Yuumi is more in a long line of very odd choices of how to change her kit.

Just before this change, there was very little incentive for Yuumi to detach from a champion during a fight past laning phase. She is very fragile; either burst or a single piece of landed hard CC will doom her ability to contribute to a fight — so jumping off feels seldom worth the risk.

The 10.13 change (E mana cost 100/115/130/145/160 mana ⇒ 40/45/50/55/60 mana +15% max mana) does a few things:

Increase the urgency of proccing her passive (the shield and mana restore) while fights are ongoing.

Massively reduce Yuumi’s ability to provide top-off healing.

Massively reduce Yuumi’s ability to provide out-of-combat movement speed.

Remove large swathes of itemization diversity by making mana an actively detrimental stat to have.

This change changes her play pattern thus: you will always be running out of mana. Proccing your passive, while dangerous, will allow you to run out of mana slightly later. (The passive cooldown scales from 20 to 8 seconds from levels 1-18, and at no point does it ever give you enough mana for a full cast of your E.)

Buying mana, however, will make you run out even faster and harder. (Seeedit.)

Mana from items and runes makes you LESS able to cast E, not more. The vast majority of the cost is the percentile: at level 18, your mana pool supports ~5 casts, and to get a sixth by buying mana, you’d need 2435 bonus mana.

Your mana regeneration and your passive’s mana restore, however, get proportionally less useful as your mana pool increases.

At level 1 with a Spellthief’s Edge, it takes one passive proc plus 20 seconds (or 40 seconds alone) to recover the mana for one E. Adding a fully charged Manaflow Band increases this to one passive proc plus 23 seconds (though it decreases the pure regen time slightly to 36 seconds).

At level 18 with +400% base mana regen from items (e.g. Shard of True Ice + Athene’s Unholy Grail + Ardent Censer + Redemption), it takes 13.9 seconds (or 4.4 seconds plus one passive proc) to recover the mana from an E. Adding a fully charged Presence of Mind increases this to 18.4 seconds (or 8.9 seconds plus one passive proc).

Carefully avoiding bonus mana has another problem: Yuumi’s Q costs 90 mana at all ranks. Buying mana to support your Q makes your E actively worse, while avoiding mana means your full pool isn’t enough for teamfights as short as two spell rotations, in the midgame.

It’s also worth noting that Presence of Mind’s mana restore, 20% of your maximum mana on takedown, is enough to allow precisely 1 additional cast of your E per takedown.

TL; DR – The 10.13 nerf means buying mana on Yuumi can actively make your E worse. Her overall design edit:was never really healthy, but nevertheless has gotten steadily less healthy/interactive over time.

EDIT: The E cost as a percentage of your total mana pool does asymptotically go down with more mana, from ~25% down towards 15%. “run out faster and harder” is a combination of two things:

A) Yuumi’s base mana pool is already deep into the diminishing returns (At level 1, you have enough for 4 casts; at 18, you have enough for a 5th E, would need 2435 bonus mana for a 6th, and cannot buy a 7th). Therefore, casting E more times is mostly dependent on mana regen.

B) Mana regen, including Yuumi’s passive mana restore (and with the exception of Manaflow Band’s relatively small regen) is flat, while the cost of the E scales with bonus mana. Acquiring mana increases the cost while regeneration stays the same.

Bonus mana causes a small decrease in the proportion of your pool an E costs, but a large decrease in how quickly you can recover that portion.

The point, in the end, is to illustrate that this nerf to Yuumi – an unhealthy champion design, possibly fundamentally so – is quite a big one, but she’s in a place where outright reworking some of her stuff is probably warranted.

Buying mana, however, will make you run out even faster and harder.

TL; DR – The 10.13 nerf means buying mana on Yuumi can actively make your E worse. Her overall design has gotten steadily less healthy/interactive over time.

Can’t believe no one in here is posting about how incorrect this is. Clearly league sub doesn’t understand math. As you build more mana, it does NOT make you run out of mana faster/harder than if you were to not buy mana. It’s less effective than it otherwise would be, but buying more mana still will make you go oom slower. For example, just running some quick random numbers, 500 max mana makes your E at max rank cost 27% of your max mana. 1200 mana would make it cost 20%. 2000 mana would make it cost 18%. The amount this goes down by gradually becomes less and less, but the post is implying that the total mana cost as a percentage of your max increases as you buy mana, which is unequivocally false.

OP also said this change would make her less interactive when they also pointed out that she NEEDS to proc her passive in fights to be useful. A bit oxymoronic if you ask me

And her other abilities don’t scale with mana, which means she still can use them more often.

isn’t the point that if you build more mana, as it costs %max mana then you have to wait longer for mana to regen therefore you run out of mana quicker? unless you have a proportional amount of mana regen to total mana to make it redundant

You’re right. But buying mana still isn’t ideal because it takes more mana to refill your mana bar since her passive is flat mana restore, not percent. So if her mana bar is 1000 mana instead of 500, and each auto restores 50 mana, it will take more autos to fill up the larger mana bar. Sure, the rate of depletion will be about the same (and actually less with a larger mana bar because the base cost takes out a smaller chunk) but the rate of restoration will also be worse. I can see OP being correct, that buying base mana (ignoring mana regeneration in most mana items, so something like a plain Sapphire Crystal) might end up worse than not having it at all.

The thing is that the mana restored from her passive and mana regen does not scale with max mana, so higher max mana means higher E cost but same regen…

actually, he’s kinda correct specifically because of yuumi’s mana restore passive.

think about it this way:

if your passive restores 100 mana and your E costs 200 mana, you will get 1/2 of the cost of your E back every time you use your passive.

but if your E costs 300 mana, or 400 mana, you will only get 1/3 or 1/4 of the mana cost back every time you use your passive.

so yeah, it doesn’t directly make the E worse, but it’s still a very bad idea to build flat mana now. you’ll want mana regen and as little flat mana as you can to keep the E cost down relative to your passive.

I don’t believe it is implying that. It’s just saying that the more max mana you have, the longer it takes flat mana regen before you get back an additional spell casts worth

You need to take into consideration, that she regens more percentage mana per sec if her total mana is lower, while the percentage cost for her heal barely changes no matter how much total mana you have.

I see your point, but what I think OP was trying to say is that when you have a larger mana pool, the flat cost of your E also goes up, and since your mana regen (except for blue buff) and your passive do not scale up with your mana pool, you cannot get more E cast during the fight than your mana pool allows, since the mana your able to get during these isn’t able to afford a new E cast.

It doesn’t run out faster, but it does run out harder in the sense that the larger your mana pool is, the slower it is going to regenerate out of base. If Yuumi has around 12 mana/sec, it takes much longer to recover enough MP for an E with mana cost of 300 rather than 200. What’s up with the condescending attitude every time someone tries to involve maths?

Did you forget that mana regenerates over time and that this regeneration doesn’t take on account your maximum mana?

The reason why ppl say it makes u go oom faster is not because you loose more mana but because you regen doesn’t get incrased. Mp regen isn’t based on ur max mana except for manaflow band. The time u regen 300mana is a lot longer than 100 in my maths atleast. So no it’s not unequivocally false you just ignore an imprtant point part in the math ur using. It will be just a big question if you want presence of mind or not I would say yes but well, since I don’t play yuumi that’s not something i have to solve.

same as with Vayne’s max hp dmg.

These things are absolute values that don’t care about mana or hp or whatever, however the rest of yuumis manacosts are still unaffected. lol


But mana regen is flat. So if you buy mana and increase the cost of E, you need more mana regen. Simply not buying mana and only mana regen is the best way to go.

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